1 00:00:49,655 --> 00:00:52,965 [theme music playing] 2 00:00:58,517 --> 00:01:00,896 MAN: The thing inside of me, it's like... 3 00:01:02,586 --> 00:01:04,241 the appetite -- it's like a wolf that's... 4 00:01:06,551 --> 00:01:09,034 feeling the hunger. 5 00:01:16,896 --> 00:01:19,172 REPORTER: He was a sniper, carrying his rifle 6 00:01:19,275 --> 00:01:21,965 and scope in guitar cases -- in St. Louis, 7 00:01:22,068 --> 00:01:24,724 he staked out a synagogue and gunned down Gerald Gordon. 8 00:01:24,827 --> 00:01:26,482 In Madison, Wisconsin, 9 00:01:26,586 --> 00:01:29,241 a young interracial couple -- in Salt Lake City, 10 00:01:29,344 --> 00:01:32,034 Franklin killed two young black men who were jogging with 11 00:01:32,137 --> 00:01:34,620 white female friends -- even civil rights leader, 12 00:01:34,724 --> 00:01:38,103 Vernon Jordan, and Larry Flynt, infamous pornographer, 13 00:01:38,206 --> 00:01:40,310 founder, and publisher of Hustler magazine, 14 00:01:40,413 --> 00:01:43,655 shot with Franklin's sniper rifle, but survived. 15 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,413 So you hunted him down? 16 00:01:51,517 --> 00:01:52,896 Yeah, I was -- I was hunting him down. 17 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,206 Yeah, I ain't gonna deny that. 18 00:01:54,310 --> 00:01:55,413 [chuckles] 19 00:01:55,517 --> 00:01:57,379 REPORTER: The single unwavering drive 20 00:01:57,482 --> 00:01:59,862 in Joseph Paul Franklin -- murder. 21 00:02:15,724 --> 00:02:17,413 You know, just go out and kill somebody at random? 22 00:02:17,517 --> 00:02:18,896 I would never do that. 23 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,965 REPORTER: 14-year-old Darrell Lane and his 13-year-old cousin, 24 00:02:22,068 --> 00:02:23,655 Dante Evans, were killed 25 00:02:23,758 --> 00:02:25,931 at random as they walked along Reading Road to 26 00:02:26,034 --> 00:02:29,103 a corner grocery store, June 8th, 1980. 27 00:02:29,206 --> 00:02:31,827 Franklin admits he was in the Cincinnati area 28 00:02:31,931 --> 00:02:33,310 the day before the murders, 29 00:02:33,413 --> 00:02:35,172 but he won't admit to the murders. 30 00:02:35,275 --> 00:02:37,620 Police still work on the case to this day, and they still 31 00:02:37,724 --> 00:02:39,137 think Franklin did it, but there isn't 32 00:02:39,241 --> 00:02:40,482 enough evidence to prove it. 33 00:02:46,068 --> 00:02:48,793 He hates men. He would never talk to you. 34 00:02:48,896 --> 00:02:51,551 He said, "But if you have a pretty assistant prosecutor," 35 00:02:51,655 --> 00:02:55,172 and I brought in Missy Powers. 36 00:02:55,275 --> 00:02:57,034 I think men took the approach, 37 00:02:57,137 --> 00:02:59,758 if you send in a pretty face, they're gonna confess, 38 00:02:59,862 --> 00:03:01,724 but I was hoping that some -- 39 00:03:01,827 --> 00:03:03,344 you needed more than just that. 40 00:03:03,448 --> 00:03:05,586 REPORTER: Franklin agreed to meet with Powers, 41 00:03:05,689 --> 00:03:09,517 but there were ground rules -- no video, only a tape recorder, 42 00:03:09,620 --> 00:03:12,103 and no meeting on Hitler's birthday. 43 00:03:32,241 --> 00:03:36,172 SAHNI: Melissa Powers is brought in to talk with Franklin in 44 00:03:36,275 --> 00:03:39,655 the hopes that maybe they will catch him off guard. 45 00:03:40,724 --> 00:03:44,517 For narcissistic offenders and psychopathic individuals, 46 00:03:44,620 --> 00:03:49,310 the idea of having an attractive young woman come 47 00:03:49,413 --> 00:03:52,379 in to talk to him would have given him the sense that he was 48 00:03:52,482 --> 00:03:54,689 in a position of power and authority, and maybe 49 00:03:54,793 --> 00:03:56,517 a willingness, hopefully, to actually talk 50 00:03:56,620 --> 00:03:58,655 and share more about the crimes he had done. 51 00:04:20,206 --> 00:04:24,379 So here we have Franklin, who's been silent for 17 years 52 00:04:24,482 --> 00:04:27,827 about these crimes, and within minutes 53 00:04:27,931 --> 00:04:30,379 of talking to this female prosecutor, 54 00:04:30,482 --> 00:04:34,482 he starts to just unload everything, saying, "I did it. 55 00:04:34,586 --> 00:04:38,241 I wanted to get rid of all the ugly people in the world." 56 00:04:38,344 --> 00:04:40,931 The clear connection between racism 57 00:04:41,034 --> 00:04:46,275 and psychopathy is inherent grandiosity and narcissism. 58 00:04:46,379 --> 00:04:50,896 He really seems to think he has a special purpose. 59 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,068 This is his way of saying, 60 00:04:53,172 --> 00:04:55,931 "I am white and therefore better than you." 61 00:04:56,034 --> 00:04:58,758 But it also has a little bit of attention-seeking behavior. 62 00:04:58,862 --> 00:05:01,137 It invites people to want to know more. 63 00:05:47,896 --> 00:05:50,862 SAHNI: Franklin's desire to talk about what he wanted to 64 00:05:50,965 --> 00:05:54,517 talk about not only was his narcissism at play, 65 00:05:54,620 --> 00:05:57,620 but his need to maintain control of the interview. 66 00:05:57,724 --> 00:06:00,344 Franklin decided that he needed to pump up 67 00:06:00,448 --> 00:06:01,448 his notoriety. 68 00:06:01,551 --> 00:06:03,758 Crimes are no good for a narcissist 69 00:06:03,862 --> 00:06:05,586 if you don't get credit for them. 70 00:06:05,689 --> 00:06:08,275 "Look at how many of these crimes I've committed 71 00:06:08,379 --> 00:06:11,896 and never got caught for and how many people I killed." 72 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,379 And he says it with pride. 73 00:06:13,482 --> 00:06:15,620 The fact that he uses the word prolific, 74 00:06:15,724 --> 00:06:17,896 he's putting himself in a position of authority. 75 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,448 He's not bothered by what he's done. 76 00:06:19,551 --> 00:06:20,896 He's getting a high off of it. 77 00:07:07,379 --> 00:07:09,068 FOX: Very few things are as dangerous 78 00:07:09,172 --> 00:07:11,034 as a psychopath that feels rejected. 79 00:07:11,137 --> 00:07:12,620 It infuriates them. 80 00:07:12,724 --> 00:07:15,172 The only way he has to respond is taking all 81 00:07:15,275 --> 00:07:18,448 the anger and frustration that he's feeling and essentially 82 00:07:18,551 --> 00:07:22,310 kill more people specifically so he would get more publicity. 83 00:07:22,413 --> 00:07:26,448 He wanted the coverage and the grandiosity of being able to 84 00:07:26,551 --> 00:07:28,275 be the person on the news, 85 00:07:28,379 --> 00:07:30,137 even though it was for a horrible thing. 86 00:07:30,241 --> 00:07:32,137 But he was known, and people were talking about him. 87 00:08:45,241 --> 00:08:49,862 He's talking about these two child victims as adults. 88 00:08:49,965 --> 00:08:54,034 He's depersonalizing them by talking about them as dudes, 89 00:08:54,137 --> 00:08:56,931 and the fact that he's referring to it as a lucky shot, 90 00:08:57,034 --> 00:08:58,896 it's also dehumanizing them. 91 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,137 He's talking about them like they're target practice. 92 00:09:01,241 --> 00:09:02,758 It's not that they're someone's children, 93 00:09:02,862 --> 00:09:04,482 somebody's brother. 94 00:09:04,586 --> 00:09:09,655 It is a lack of caring about human life and compassion, 95 00:09:09,758 --> 00:09:13,310 but the predatory component is also thrill-seeking. 96 00:09:53,931 --> 00:09:56,172 FOX: Larry Flynt published in Hustler magazine 97 00:09:56,275 --> 00:09:59,068 a man and a woman that were interracial together. 98 00:09:59,172 --> 00:10:01,482 So because Larry Flynt did something that Franklin 99 00:10:01,586 --> 00:10:02,862 essentially disagreed with, 100 00:10:02,965 --> 00:10:05,896 he thought he should die for it -- in his mind, he failed. 101 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,310 He called it a tragedy, but not because Larry Flynt was wounded 102 00:10:10,413 --> 00:10:12,586 and paralyzed forever, but because he didn't kill him. 103 00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:53,758 FOX: In his mind, these girls did something wrong. 104 00:11:53,862 --> 00:11:55,620 He wanted to kill that day, and no matter what 105 00:11:55,724 --> 00:11:57,103 they said, he was going to do it. 106 00:11:57,206 --> 00:12:00,137 But the M.O. is different, which shows that he's really 107 00:12:00,241 --> 00:12:02,482 escalating in what he needed to achieve 108 00:12:02,586 --> 00:12:06,137 the same level of power and control, to get the same level 109 00:12:06,241 --> 00:12:08,517 of gratification from these crimes. 110 00:12:08,620 --> 00:12:11,241 Sniping isn't a very intimate experience. 111 00:12:11,344 --> 00:12:12,689 There's a distance. 112 00:12:12,793 --> 00:12:14,206 You don't really get to see the expression 113 00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:16,793 on the face as the people are dying, 114 00:12:16,896 --> 00:12:18,965 but killing somebody point blank, 115 00:12:19,068 --> 00:12:21,172 especially if they're begging for their lives, 116 00:12:21,275 --> 00:12:23,344 that's really when he feels the most power 117 00:12:23,448 --> 00:12:26,482 over somebody else's life and really has that grandiosity 118 00:12:26,586 --> 00:12:28,103 that he's so desiring 119 00:12:59,620 --> 00:13:02,517 He's really going through basic problem solving 120 00:13:02,620 --> 00:13:04,586 strategies without any consideration 121 00:13:04,689 --> 00:13:07,241 for human emotions, for the fear these women must 122 00:13:07,344 --> 00:13:08,413 have felt. 123 00:13:08,517 --> 00:13:10,827 You see this total depersonalization of 124 00:13:10,931 --> 00:13:12,724 the victims, and when Franklin 125 00:13:12,827 --> 00:13:15,827 recounts what he did to these victims and how 126 00:13:15,931 --> 00:13:18,793 he terrorized them emotionally in those moments leading up to 127 00:13:18,896 --> 00:13:20,896 their death, he's callous about it. 128 00:14:08,551 --> 00:14:11,620 FOX: He had self-monikered himself as a serial killer, 129 00:14:11,724 --> 00:14:13,413 basically saying, "Well, you know, 130 00:14:13,517 --> 00:14:16,275 "I just wasted them before I really told them the thing that 131 00:14:16,379 --> 00:14:18,379 would have very much scared them." 132 00:14:18,482 --> 00:14:21,241 But he's just writing this off as a loss. 133 00:14:21,344 --> 00:14:23,965 He got the kill, but that really wasn't what he 134 00:14:24,068 --> 00:14:26,413 was after -- he wanted the response. 135 00:14:26,517 --> 00:14:29,413 And he was almost disappointed when they didn't show 136 00:14:29,517 --> 00:14:30,793 that fear. 137 00:14:30,896 --> 00:14:32,482 DERIGHT: Franklin really seems to like to 138 00:14:32,586 --> 00:14:34,965 stay in control of his victims, 139 00:14:35,068 --> 00:14:38,241 like many psychopaths, because it feeds into the idea 140 00:14:38,344 --> 00:14:42,482 that they are important and that they are superior. 141 00:14:42,586 --> 00:14:46,275 In this situation, when he encountered resistance of 142 00:14:46,379 --> 00:14:48,413 any kind, he just shot them to death. 143 00:15:51,344 --> 00:15:52,896 SAHNI: He's saying, "It didn't upset me, 144 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,862 it didn't traumatize me," because he was just 145 00:15:54,965 --> 00:15:56,137 doing his job. 146 00:15:56,241 --> 00:16:01,034 He was doing that unsavory task that needed to get done, 147 00:16:01,137 --> 00:16:02,724 even if it's not pleasant. 148 00:16:02,827 --> 00:16:04,931 That's consistent with a psychopathic individual 149 00:16:05,034 --> 00:16:07,103 who doesn't have normal connections to other 150 00:16:07,206 --> 00:16:08,275 human beings. 151 00:16:08,379 --> 00:16:11,448 This is a very predatory individual who gets 152 00:16:11,551 --> 00:16:13,965 his sense of self-confidence 153 00:16:14,068 --> 00:16:17,206 and station in life from deciding who lives and who dies. 154 00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:20,137 But there's a little bit of euphoria you hear in his voice. 155 00:16:20,241 --> 00:16:21,379 There's a chuckle. 156 00:16:21,482 --> 00:16:25,413 He is glib about how he's describing the crime, and that 157 00:16:25,517 --> 00:16:29,172 arousal does speak to some energy or adrenaline 158 00:16:29,275 --> 00:16:33,344 that he was experiencing both at the time of the crime, 159 00:16:33,448 --> 00:16:37,103 as well as now, recounting it for this interviewer. 160 00:16:53,344 --> 00:16:56,103 REPORTER: Why did you decide to confess? 161 00:16:56,206 --> 00:16:59,137 Well, I had a dream that told me to confess to this. 162 00:17:01,034 --> 00:17:03,758 DERIGHT: It's a few weeks away from Franklin's execution, 163 00:17:03,862 --> 00:17:05,793 and he's doing this media tour, 164 00:17:05,896 --> 00:17:09,310 accepting all kinds of interviews from reporters, 165 00:17:09,413 --> 00:17:11,034 both locally and nationally. 166 00:17:11,137 --> 00:17:13,275 He really wants to make sure that he is 167 00:17:13,379 --> 00:17:16,586 well-known to the world about what he did. 168 00:17:16,689 --> 00:17:21,068 Franklin gets his pleasure from notoriety -- 169 00:17:21,172 --> 00:17:23,068 not the actual act of killing, 170 00:17:23,172 --> 00:17:26,310 but being known as someone who does that. 171 00:17:26,413 --> 00:17:29,000 He's not saying, "I regret what I did. 172 00:17:29,103 --> 00:17:31,379 "I regret the harm that I put 173 00:17:31,482 --> 00:17:33,586 on these victims and their families." 174 00:17:33,689 --> 00:17:34,862 It's all about him. 175 00:17:36,689 --> 00:17:40,103 REPORTER: Joseph, uh, you've been on death row now for what, 176 00:17:40,206 --> 00:17:42,448 - 16 years? - Yeah, about 16 years. 177 00:17:42,551 --> 00:17:47,137 REPORTER: And now the execution date is growing very near. 178 00:17:47,241 --> 00:17:49,965 What are your -- what are your feelings with that? 179 00:17:50,068 --> 00:17:53,206 Well, I'm hoping to get a stay of execution. 180 00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:55,344 I would love to be out on the streets right now. 181 00:18:30,068 --> 00:18:32,724 It's not uncommon for psychopaths to sort of 182 00:18:32,827 --> 00:18:34,034 shift their identity 183 00:18:34,137 --> 00:18:35,724 and play off of what works in the moment. 184 00:18:35,827 --> 00:18:37,620 And at that moment, the thing that was 185 00:18:37,724 --> 00:18:40,758 going to work best for him was, "I'm repenting. 186 00:18:40,862 --> 00:18:42,517 "I see the light. 187 00:18:42,620 --> 00:18:45,310 I believe in God, and I'm asking God for forgiveness." 188 00:18:45,413 --> 00:18:48,689 Whether he believes any of that is completely disputable. 189 00:18:48,793 --> 00:18:51,551 He wants clemency, and he's trying to do anything he can 190 00:18:51,655 --> 00:18:55,172 to still play the fiddle and see what makes people dance. 191 00:18:55,275 --> 00:18:57,310 I guarantee you, if you asked him two 192 00:18:57,413 --> 00:18:59,275 days later, and he didn't get what he wanted, 193 00:18:59,379 --> 00:19:00,758 he would take it all back. 194 00:19:08,655 --> 00:19:10,137 [Franklin laughing] 195 00:19:34,724 --> 00:19:35,586 KARAS: Wow. 196 00:20:01,551 --> 00:20:04,413 While there's no doubt that early childhood trauma, 197 00:20:04,517 --> 00:20:07,896 emotional neglect, abuse are not optimal ways 198 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,137 for a child to be raised, 199 00:20:09,241 --> 00:20:12,310 Franklin is attributing a lot of his formation of hatred 200 00:20:12,413 --> 00:20:16,620 and racist attitudes and being a dysfunctional, anti-social 201 00:20:16,724 --> 00:20:18,793 human being and psychopathic, 202 00:20:18,896 --> 00:20:20,862 he's blaming all of it on that. 203 00:20:20,965 --> 00:20:23,448 Franklin is doing nothing other than shifting 204 00:20:23,551 --> 00:20:25,862 the blame and minimizing the seriousness of what 205 00:20:25,965 --> 00:20:27,034 he's done, 206 00:20:27,137 --> 00:20:29,655 and ultimately, that lack of willingness to take true 207 00:20:29,758 --> 00:20:31,241 responsibility for his own 208 00:20:31,344 --> 00:20:33,344 attitudes and choices and behaviors, 209 00:20:33,448 --> 00:20:37,517 speaks to the skin surface level of remorse and regret 210 00:20:37,620 --> 00:20:39,758 he had, even up until his dying days. 211 00:20:48,620 --> 00:20:50,275 FRANKLIN: Most people out there, I mean, 212 00:20:50,379 --> 00:20:52,103 they're heading toward a burning hell, 213 00:20:52,206 --> 00:20:53,172 and they don't know it. 214 00:20:53,275 --> 00:20:54,586 Do you think something lies for you 215 00:20:54,689 --> 00:20:57,172 on the other side after November 20th? 216 00:20:57,275 --> 00:20:59,517 Yeah, but it isn't a burning hell, though, because I'm -- 217 00:20:59,620 --> 00:21:01,068 I'm a servant of the Lord, though.